The censorship comes from the app. I believe the app has a second layer that specifically censors the model output (to survive). The llm model itself is free of censorship.
I guess that Trump is not the only disruptive force in the iniverse... I wonder what DeepSeek says when asked questions about the China flu, Wuhan, Tiananmen Square, or leader XI (Aka as eleven..).
Don't ban....COMPETE. One nice thing I saw on X yesterday was a lot of technerd tweeting about "It's on." One other nice thing, Biden and the Democrats wanted to regulate AI. Trump is hands off. The announcement on Stargate that he hosted was predictably pitchforked by the left wing press, but to people who work in AI it wasn't that big of a deal either since it over promised on not only the money but the capability. Yesterday's Chinese release makes Stargate moot.
Yes, they will censor. Try asking about a famous photo with a man standing in front of a tank. It's China. The interesting thing about DeepSeek is that it sure seems like it was built not only using a decentralized management team, but decentralized logic to make it work. China generally abhors decentralization. It is a command and control place.
After you brush off the initial fear, realize that the US has more compute power and a larger volume of brighter minds working on AI. Given the chance to compete, the capitalistic society should beat the communist society.
Instead of being fearful, we ought to be thankful for creative destruction. Compete, compete, compete. It's better for all of us.
Part of the issue is that a lot of the AI projects in the US see themselves as in a race for AGI (they’ll know it when they see it, apparently) and so throwing iron and electricity at the problem is no problem for something so momentous that will get their names in history books.
The concepts of cost efficiency and near-term profits aren’t prominently featured.
The real question is how does Nvidia and other players monetize their AI products with a player whose AI can run on common hardware and has open source code? Apparently, the stock holders have similar questions.
As an aside, Nippon steel is a Japanese company, not Chinese.
From what I can see, it will push all AI companies to accelerate their model development. For example, some of them used to train a new model every few months, but now they can do it every few weeks or days.
But does that materially impact the demand for chips? Not necessarily at this stage. Think about cars and gas price. Over the last few decades, fuel efficiency has more than doubled, did that cause the gas price to collapse? No, driving has just become much more affordable to more people.
I am sceptical about this. Neural network training is an optimization problem. You try to find a global maximum or minimum of a cost function. There are numerous algorithms to do this, e.g. genetic algorithms, simulated annealing, and others. So, if true, they must have found a very efficient optimization algorithm. But this is hard, as the optimization algorithms are very well researched. I would assign ~2% probability that what they claim is true.
Not necessarily. Just coming up with a less wasteful model architecture that is easier to optimize should be enough. This also applies to most things in life: what you are optimizing is more important than the effort put into the optimization itself.
BUD has 350 beers and they put Dylan Mulvaney out there front and center and then proceed to buy their own stock back on the dip. DeepSeek might actually be DeepSix. Odds not zero that this thing is bullshitzky
Also, it seems we want the maximum competition in this "AI" market. The last thing we want is 1 big monopoly (gov or private) dominating AI. More startups. Lower costs. More competitors....And, it's another reminder that pouring a ton of government money into, say, a CHIPS act today will look like a waste tomorrow, especially in a fast moving field like this. So glad you commented on this!
By the time that this enchantment with AI tech tends fades due to competition, I suspect that it will be the same as any other - over hyped, over priced, and finally over.
With almost certainty your commenter is correct. Demand will increase by more than the reduction in cost, as a result of the reduction in cost, such that total demand increases. This is because demand’s relationship to price is non linear for higher priced commodities.
The censorship comes from the app. I believe the app has a second layer that specifically censors the model output (to survive). The llm model itself is free of censorship.
Came here to say this
Deep-six :)
I guess that Trump is not the only disruptive force in the iniverse... I wonder what DeepSeek says when asked questions about the China flu, Wuhan, Tiananmen Square, or leader XI (Aka as eleven..).
Don't ban....COMPETE. One nice thing I saw on X yesterday was a lot of technerd tweeting about "It's on." One other nice thing, Biden and the Democrats wanted to regulate AI. Trump is hands off. The announcement on Stargate that he hosted was predictably pitchforked by the left wing press, but to people who work in AI it wasn't that big of a deal either since it over promised on not only the money but the capability. Yesterday's Chinese release makes Stargate moot.
Yes, they will censor. Try asking about a famous photo with a man standing in front of a tank. It's China. The interesting thing about DeepSeek is that it sure seems like it was built not only using a decentralized management team, but decentralized logic to make it work. China generally abhors decentralization. It is a command and control place.
After you brush off the initial fear, realize that the US has more compute power and a larger volume of brighter minds working on AI. Given the chance to compete, the capitalistic society should beat the communist society.
Instead of being fearful, we ought to be thankful for creative destruction. Compete, compete, compete. It's better for all of us.
I would say: Don't think twice it's alright and go bull on the DJIA
Part of the issue is that a lot of the AI projects in the US see themselves as in a race for AGI (they’ll know it when they see it, apparently) and so throwing iron and electricity at the problem is no problem for something so momentous that will get their names in history books.
The concepts of cost efficiency and near-term profits aren’t prominently featured.
The real question is how does Nvidia and other players monetize their AI products with a player whose AI can run on common hardware and has open source code? Apparently, the stock holders have similar questions.
As an aside, Nippon steel is a Japanese company, not Chinese.
From what I can see, it will push all AI companies to accelerate their model development. For example, some of them used to train a new model every few months, but now they can do it every few weeks or days.
But does that materially impact the demand for chips? Not necessarily at this stage. Think about cars and gas price. Over the last few decades, fuel efficiency has more than doubled, did that cause the gas price to collapse? No, driving has just become much more affordable to more people.
"locate the CCP censorship bits and remove them"
I am sceptical about this. Neural network training is an optimization problem. You try to find a global maximum or minimum of a cost function. There are numerous algorithms to do this, e.g. genetic algorithms, simulated annealing, and others. So, if true, they must have found a very efficient optimization algorithm. But this is hard, as the optimization algorithms are very well researched. I would assign ~2% probability that what they claim is true.
Not necessarily. Just coming up with a less wasteful model architecture that is easier to optimize should be enough. This also applies to most things in life: what you are optimizing is more important than the effort put into the optimization itself.
The fact that this competitive model was built on older hardware is impressive. However, there is no 3rd party verification of their cost claims.
BUD has 350 beers and they put Dylan Mulvaney out there front and center and then proceed to buy their own stock back on the dip. DeepSeek might actually be DeepSix. Odds not zero that this thing is bullshitzky
Also, it seems we want the maximum competition in this "AI" market. The last thing we want is 1 big monopoly (gov or private) dominating AI. More startups. Lower costs. More competitors....And, it's another reminder that pouring a ton of government money into, say, a CHIPS act today will look like a waste tomorrow, especially in a fast moving field like this. So glad you commented on this!
By the time that this enchantment with AI tech tends fades due to competition, I suspect that it will be the same as any other - over hyped, over priced, and finally over.
Please replace the word "tends" by using "trends".
Well said.
Do we know that DeepSeek is telling the truth? It seems like an awfully good way to pick up billion s shorting Nvidia.
With almost certainty your commenter is correct. Demand will increase by more than the reduction in cost, as a result of the reduction in cost, such that total demand increases. This is because demand’s relationship to price is non linear for higher priced commodities.