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Jeffrey Carter's avatar

I think one thing Milton Friedman would rethink is free trade with China. I am under the impression he was for free trade because he thought it would encourage them to become a more capitalistic country, or at least a quasi capitalistic country like the EU. The Chinese are not and more of a threat than they were before they entered the WTO.

Anecdotes do not mean causation, but they are interesting. At least they give you clues to investigate something. Tariffs are a poor way to incentivize economically, and even in a 0% tariff environment, legislative protectionism can keep products out. Try buying a bottle of American/Italian/Spanish/German/Austrailian wine in France for example.

I spoke with two CEOs. One ran a multi billion dollar apparel business that manufactured in China and exported worldwide, with a lot of it coming to the US. In 2017, Trump put tariffs on. He moved his production from China to India/Bangladesh. It took 12 months. He did an audit of his company while he was doing this. The move out of China reduced his COGS by 20%. He also found out that many of his own American VPs were getting kickbacks from the Chinese in order to persuade upper mgmt to keep production in China.

The other CEO has a consumer products business made out of steel. He sells to big box US retailers. His competition is similar products that are plastic mold injected. He manufactures in China and the tariffs are going to hurt him. He is looking at moving his manufacturing operation to Vietnam.

When I asked, "If you saved 20% on COGS, why don't all businesses move out?" The answer I received was "Companies can't because of supply chains, or sometimes they truly are lazy."

Any CEO I have ever spoken with that has done business in China says they steal intellectual property. They bribe, and take bribes. Labor was cheap, and the switching costs are something they don't want to currently assume. Tariffs change the economics for them where they have to look at it, but in many cases the opportunity costs might be far too hard to change.

On social media, I have seen opinions that this is a way to crush the Chinese yuan, with the corresponding threat that if the US were to lose, interest rates would go to the moon. Not sure I buy it, but so many conspiracy theories that were trashed in the past have come to truth it's possible to say it's not probable but it is possible. If a lot of factories leave China for Vietnam or India, the Chinese government is going to have to do something to support those unemployed people. I realize they only have "24-month welfare programs", but if there aren't jobs, the government is going to have to step in. I try never to forget, the Chinese are communists and while they run their country in a smarter fashion than the old Soviets, they still are communists.

Additionally, it is clear US policy has not been correct as the post outlines. But, Chinese policy is pretty poor as well. They have not only a demographic problem, but their own debt problem and other problems. What happens to their government if people can't afford to eat?

I think the economics presented in this post are on point and clearly explain things. I think often economists get bogged down in the numbers, and forget the strategy or game theory. They Keynesians are out in full throat on the social media channels that I am on worrying about the cut in government spending, and tariffs.

It is clear that if the entire world went to 0% tariffs and duties, it would be better for every person in the world. But, we still wouldn't have free trade. I don't think we solve that one ever. We are human.

I would have preferred to see Trump take on the inner demons that stop economic progress or competition inside the US. However, that is not politically palatable and it's easier to point fingers and blame someone else.

At the same time, I see a lot of economists with Trump Derangement Syndrome and virtually everything they say is negative no matter what Trump does. They hurt their credibility when they do that. I compliment the Grumpy One that he didn't bring Trump into it, and kept the post objective. With objectivity, we can learn.

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James Wall's avatar

Excellent report. Thank you!

As a David Ricardo Comparative Advantage free-trade disciple, I’m for free trade. But I am reminded that for it to work, both parties (and the more the merrier) need to participate equally otherwise it becomes a beggar-thy-neighbor arrangement where you go deeper into debt and your neighbor is holding the mortgage. And, it turns out, he was only your friend while you were buying the rounds of drinks at the bar but now that you are broke he wants his pound of flesh.

I have been contemplating how much debt as a percentage of GDP the US can have before the banks decide we are bankrupt. I do not have an answer, yet I am concerned that we are far closer to that point than our politicians realize, assuming they are even aware it could happen.

If Trump’s objective is zero-zero tariffs, as Musk advocates, and he is successful, he will be the GOAT (Greatest of All Time free trader). If he fails, he will be a goat (political sacrificial animal).

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